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Auteur Sujet: 996S Eprom et Injection  (Lu 21586 fois)

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #120 le: 04 juin 2020, 11H 06mn 24s »
Improve your presentation as requested before asking questions.
And I find it curious that you understand French perfectly without writing it.
Ne pas voir diavel...boire Duvel, vivre avec une brune!
A la recherche de l'oiseau bleu sanglant, qui a bien voyagé.
Nove nove sei rosso, avec sa moelleuse symphonie de pièces en mouvement et bébé Mostro 600 carburé

Et ... hemmm la petite bestiole, un Duke 390! Tout fout le camp mon pôvre

Arff fallait bien que ça arrive ... :-)) et c'est arrivé! Un 690 a remplacé le 390!

Ex ceci, ex cela, ex tout court  spécialiste en rien, con pétant partout

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #121 le: 04 juin 2020, 11H 32mn 09s »
Well google translation does a good job to understand foreign languages. I also learned french in scool some (or a lot) years ago.

The other way around, writing french with translator is crap. But if it is not OK to use English I can give a try and use translator with my remaining knowledge of the french language

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #122 le: 04 juin 2020, 12H 02mn 26s »
Ok continue in English so we will do our best to understand you  8)
Ne pas voir diavel...boire Duvel, vivre avec une brune!
A la recherche de l'oiseau bleu sanglant, qui a bien voyagé.
Nove nove sei rosso, avec sa moelleuse symphonie de pièces en mouvement et bébé Mostro 600 carburé

Et ... hemmm la petite bestiole, un Duke 390! Tout fout le camp mon pôvre

Arff fallait bien que ça arrive ... :-)) et c'est arrivé! Un 690 a remplacé le 390!

Ex ceci, ex cela, ex tout court  spécialiste en rien, con pétant partout

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Re : Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #123 le: 04 juin 2020, 12H 04mn 05s »
Ok continue in English so we will do our best to understand you  8)

Merci beaucoup

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Re : Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #124 le: 04 juin 2020, 13H 46mn 43s »

Looks like the stumble is caused by the ignition mapping and not the fuel mapping. Before and after




if your ingnition map looks like this it is because you do not have the right XDF to view it

I think you modified an area that should not be modified ! because it was not the ignition map
« Modifié: 04 juin 2020, 13H 48mn 31s par ducati748 »

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #125 le: 04 juin 2020, 16H 07mn 47s »
According to Mickster this is the ignition map BEFORE he changed it. So it should be the original one from a 996S.
The stock ignition table had a flat 11.5 deg advance at 2000 RPM and above - this is s.th. Brad the bike boy mentions as well.

Unfortunately I do not have the original EPROM or BIN file for a 996S EU. My bike was equipped with a tuned chip, unfortunately with a security board like the ultimaps (but it is not an ultimap one). So I cannot check if the igniation map realy looks like this or even check the WOT table.

As XDF I am using the one linked here, or this one from Guzzidiag: https://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/xdf/16M_Duc748_916S_64k_V1.1.zip

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #126 le: 04 juin 2020, 16H 32mn 57s »
Hello
I prepared you a package with 3 bin files and 1 xdf
078 is the bin for the oem exhaust
96506501B is the ducati performance bin for the 50mm exhaust
96506501B-3 is my modified bin for the 50mm exhaust
To read those bin files, use the included xdf
Here's the adress to download the package
https://we.tl/t-sYs1n1bpmp

I didn't touch the ignition maps at all
I tried a lot of different directions, but in the end, I only modified the fuel mapping by largely increasing the fuel quantity in mid RPM and mid TPS areas => My bin is a blend of the 96506501B and another eprom and solves all the problems that I had. Bike pulls much harder in mid RPM range and keeps high RPM behaviour as before.
My explanation is following : in 2000/2001 there have been harder emission regulations, and Ducati had to lower emissions in the 5000 RPM area which brought them to run the bike very lean, causing the stumble. When you look at the mapping, you find a lot of peaks and valleys which are not logical or natural i would say. This brought me to mix 2 eproms to have 1 being ok for the whole range.

Please note that my Eproms are built to have TPS at idle at 420mV and that your throttle body setup has to be ok to have the bike running properly => typically, bad throttle body setup will cause problems mainly at low RPMs like backfire, poor Idle...

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #127 le: 04 juin 2020, 16H 35mn 49s »
These are the corrections I did to the fueling
Top : original map
Bottom : correction




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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #128 le: 04 juin 2020, 21H 06mn 29s »
Awesome- Merci Beaucoup.

Just did a quick check an it looks like the ignition map of your original bin looks fine, hmm

Anyway, you can find my bin and the xdf I used here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ano_zT9MC0oWmXiJPoFaAPex4c5Y?e=fgtpHr
He did change the rpm points (adjusted to 10300 max, added 6250 instead) and the TPS points as well

This is the one from Mickster which I did try w/o any change and worked pretty fine up to 9000 rpm. I just realized comparing with your original one that my bin has an issue at the iginition map at higher revs. So I guess I found the solution for my current problem.



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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #129 le: 04 juin 2020, 21H 47mn 24s »
You're welcome.

It took me a certain time to solve this issue but since i works, I truly enjoy the 996S another way.
Thanks for sharing your files, I'll look at the maps this weekend.
As my last version works fine, I will not work on it further, but keep us informed about your tests, it is always interesting to gather additional informations.

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #130 le: 04 juin 2020, 23H 15mn 24s »
XDFs are not magic, they cannot be suitable for all BIN files.
for each BIN file, check that the XDF is suitable.
for example the XDF "996desmo11" is not perfectly suitable for the BIN file "996BIP_078_2"
look at the ignition advance table you can see that there is a problem this is not normal.
The problem comes from the XDF and not from the BIN file



for me the right address is F49D and not F57D !!
then opening this gives this mapping, and yet nothing has been changed in the BIN



you have to be careful with this before modifying BIN files

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #131 le: 04 juin 2020, 23H 33mn 38s »
Thanks, the same issue with the XDF file VTZ_Desmo did send. Thanks!

I already realized this when i used the XDF from the Guzzi webseite, with this one the ignition map looks fine.
If you open the original 996S bin file with this XDF the ignition map looks liek crap:


« Modifié: 04 juin 2020, 23H 38mn 03s par Goddi8 »

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #132 le: 07 juin 2020, 21H 34mn 47s »
So, I did a little more research on this topic as I couldn't believe a bike with the ignition advance shown above would run at all.
Is used the ODA online assembler (onlinedisassembler.com) to compare a 916 bin, the 996s orig bin and my bin posted here (modified 996s). The IAM 16 is based on M68HC controller so ODA.

I didn't try to understand the data but tried to identify the addresses tunerpro (XDF) uses.
Within the 916 and both 996 bins I was able to find the address f15e for the fuel map as well as the address for the delay map (F25F)

Bit I wasn't able to find the f49d fpr the ignition map in either of the 996s bins but could find it in the 916 bin.






So I assume the 996s need a different XDF and that one provided by VTZ_desmo as well as the Desmo_11 is the correct one for the 996s.

What do you think?

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #133 le: 07 juin 2020, 22H 22mn 17s »
A disassembled file is very hard to analyze and it is not sure that it is really a reference to the addresses of the maps.

I think as I said before that every BIN file must have an XDF, and sometimes with luck the XDF can be suitable for another BIN file.

I do not understand what you want exactly, but if there is a BIN file that you want to read correctly, put it here so that we can download it and find the addresses of the injection and ignition maps

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #134 le: 07 juin 2020, 22H 41mn 03s »
Thank you.
The bin I'd like to understand is the one from the link above: 996BIP_078_2

This Bin did cure the issue I had with my 996s (stumbling between 4500 and 6000 when accelerating).
The bin is based on a 996s original and has been "crossed" with data from a 748r. Also the breakpoints, rpm and throttle position, have been adjusted.
But know the bike has some issue when accelerating in higher gears and higher revs. She doesn't feel lively.

That's why I came across the ignition mapping. If the F57D is the correct address for a 996s, the bin file 996BIP_078_2 does have wrong values for ignition advance at higher revs

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #135 le: 07 juin 2020, 23H 06mn 36s »
for me it's normal that the values ​​are a little different because if my memory is correct, desmo11 from the ducati.ms forum indicated that they had changed the tables so it is no longer exactly like on 996S, you must try to find your own setting by doing tests.
Otherwise you can also try the Vtz_Desmo file which has already spent time and tests (like desmo11) to get it to work properly.
« Modifié: 07 juin 2020, 23H 08mn 51s par ducati748 »

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #136 le: 07 juin 2020, 23H 08mn 18s »
Sorry, I did not have time to look at that topic this weekend.

Just sharing my experience about ducati's bins...
I did never open a 916 bin, so I don't know what xdf is needed.
But I had a look both at 996 and 996S bin files, all coming from ducati.

I needed to use a different xdf for the 996 files than for the 996S files.
My explanation about this is following : as you know, the bin contains the different maps (ignition, fueling...) and the program that runs the ECU.
It seems that ducati has made some changes around year 2000 both to the maps (as I said earlier, probably to accomodate new pollution rules, causing too lean maps around 5000 RPMs), and to the program (more linked to ducati's internal continous improvement) implementing new functions and thus changing some map adresses.

Here's the link to download the 2 different defintions
xdf 1 is for the old 996 bins
xdf 2 is for the more recent 996S bins

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/ccb9e681a5c53ddfd6d00bf0cc2553d120200607210611/0738433646c2e19bd92d696ea37255e420200607210634/386c74

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #137 le: 08 juin 2020, 08H 14mn 41s »
No worries, an many thanks for the xdfs!

That proofs that my BIN file has an issue at higher revs with the ignition map. I will change this to the original setting and see how it goes.

You are correct, at least the 996s is homologated according EU1 - so there might be a change re the fuel mapping to meet the emission requirements.
The changed address for the ignition map might be more a copy and paste thing and might have been taken/copied from the SPS/P8.

But anyhow, your help (VTZ_Desmo and ducati748) is much appreciated - these ladies are old and most of the knowledge has been lost. Merci beaucoup!

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #138 le: 13 juin 2020, 23H 06mn 27s »
So, finally I made it, Fixed the ignition map and tested the BIN file today.
Bike runs smooth even in slow, constant traffic, has no stumbling when accelerating between 4500 and 5500 or somewhere else. It also revs up to the limitter with no issue.
Fuel consumption is around 6 Liters (got over 220km before the yellow light came on) in a mixture of city, secondary road and autobahn (still makes 270 :-) as well).

Thanks a lot again for your help sorting the XDF files and understanding the issue I had.
If you want to test, the modified bin is here https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ano_zT9MC0oWmX6WKPDfdPQKYCRp?e=2DSDb3


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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #139 le: 14 juin 2020, 05H 48mn 11s »
Good news
Glad you were able to solve this issue, I'll keep it updated if I test your bin
If ever you test my modified bin, I would also be interested to know what are your comments
 :thumbsup:

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #140 le: 14 juin 2020, 09H 42mn 12s »
it would have been nice to have the details of the modifications to understand, but if I look on tunerpro I have the impression that you have modified only lines 8600 and 10300,



which is what I said before in the subject, an area which does not seem to me the right one because of the address of the XDF.
I am astonished that it solves the porblem !
and also what I don't understand is I don't see how the intermediate speed range (4500 and 5500) can have changed if the values ​​have not changed...!

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Re : Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #141 le: 15 juin 2020, 09H 37mn 49s »
Good news
Glad you were able to solve this issue, I'll keep it updated if I test your bin
If ever you test my modified bin, I would also be interested to know what are your comments
 :thumbsup:
I will do! Thanks.

@ducati748 - sorry, did post the change in a previous post.

I did start from this bin: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ano_zT9MC0oWmGejjANYLGvAwcII?e=WxelZr
Which has already a modified fuel mapping but also changed breakpoints for rev and throttle.

With this file the bike ran smooth but had issues at higher revs.
Using the XDF 1 from this link
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/ccb9e681a5c53ddfd6d00bf0cc2553d120200607210611/0738433646c2e19bd92d696ea37255e420200607210634/386c74
the ignition map looks good. But using
XDF 2 from the same link the two last rev breakpoints looked wrong

What did I change in this bin: 996BIP_078_2_mod211 (https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ano_zT9MC0oWmX6WKPDfdPQKYCRp?e=2DSDb3)

- changed rev breakpoints back to the original ones (up to 11.000)
- changed last two lines of the ignition map to original (screenshot below with XDF 2 which I believe is the correct one for the 996s)



So overall the latest bin has (compared to the original 996s bin)
- valid ignition map entries for both starting addresses (old an new xdf)
- changed fuel maps for horizontal and vertical (kind of a mixture between the original 996s bin and the bin for open exhaust for 996s. Smoothed out everyting a bit
- changed tps break points



In regards of the ignition map I didn't try the original one with my fuel map. So maybe the fuel map alone fixes the issues I had with stumbling between 4500 and 5500.

At least the changed addresses for the ignition map are kind of weird.



« Modifié: 15 juin 2020, 09H 44mn 20s par Goddi8 »

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #142 le: 02 juillet 2020, 07H 40mn 04s »
@VTZ_Desmo I had a 200km testride with your version of the Eprom last week. Feels good and feels like a bit more torque in the mid range.
But I still had some issues when the bike was hot (>80 water temp, outside temp around 30) when winding up the throttle between 4500 and 5500. It is much less than before (like a short hiccup) but still there.
If I would race the bike I would stick with yours but for my usual rides on the road I take mine.
Thanks for sharing!

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #143 le: 02 juillet 2020, 21H 35mn 24s »
Good to have your feedback.
Just to be sure, you tried the 96506501B-3 ? Was it with OEM exhaust or with the full open 50mm Termi ?
I am just asking this because the 078 you based your mods on is meant to run with the OEM exhaust.
If you tried my eprom with OEM exhaust, this may explains your hiccup.

Anyway, with my configuration, the bike runs perfectly everywhere, and pulls much harder in mid range.
But Fuel Consumption raises => around 180km till orange light flashes.

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #144 le: 02 juillet 2020, 21H 39mn 12s »
Yes, I tried the -3 and yes wit a street legal exhaust (not the original Termis but still a street legal version).
And yes, you are right - it is thursty :-) around 15 liters for the 200km ride.

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #145 le: 08 août 2020, 14H 47mn 34s »
Salut tout le monde
Depuis la révision de cet hiver, j'ai assez peu roulé avec la Tamburini mais c'est toujours un bonheur de la sortir.
Il me reste encore la vérif du serrage de l'écrou du volant moteur à faire.
J'ai récupéré tout le matos nécessaire : extracteur de carter (fait maison), bloque volant, douille longue, clé dynamo 320 Nm... Y'a plus qu'à...

Lors de ma ballade ce matin, j'ai remarqué que la poignée d'embrayage avait perdu en course et 'butait' beaucoup trop tot. J'avais eu un truc similaire il y a un an et changé les joints de a tige. Je pense que c'est le recepteur d'embrayage qui est en fin de vie. Je vais démonter ça demain. Savez vous s'il existe un kit pour le remettre en état ou bien s'il faut le remplacer tout simplement ? (c'est deja le nouveau modele en etoile)

Et encore un petit conseil : je me suis trouvé une coque mono qu'il faut reprendre à quelques endroits avant peinture. Avez vous une reference de mastic a me conseiller ?

Merci d'avance

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #146 le: 08 août 2020, 16H 20mn 51s »
Pour ton récepteur à ma connaissance il n'existe pas de kit de réfection pour celui ci (alors que oui pour la génération d'avant) mais bon je ne suis peut être pas à jour sur ce qui se fait dernièrement.
(j'ai tout de même le souvenir que quelqu'un avait réussi à l'ouvrir...mais je ne retrouve pas le sujet)
Pour le mastic aucune idée !

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #147 le: 11 août 2020, 13H 12mn 44s »
J'ai bien essayé de trouver un kit de réfection pour les récepteurs étoile mais je n'ai rien trouvé.
Comme tu dis, ça existe pour la génération précédente.
On trouve assez facilement des récepteurs en occasion, pour pas très cher, mais vu la durée de vie du premier (20 ans), je ne ressens pas le besoin de gratter quelques euros, pour au final en récuperer un qui a peut être des heures de vol derrière lui et qui claquera dans 2 ans...

Par contre, j'hésite à remettre celui d'origine (entre temps, il a évolué et c'est un kit complet avec la tige avec blocage de la rotation) ou bien à en mettre un de 30mm STM qui diminue l'effort sur la poignée et pour lequel il existe des kits de joints pour réparation ultérieure => des avis sachant que c'est le meme tarif ~150 euros ?

Le nouveau récepteur OEM


Le récepteur STM


Note : je ne suis absolument pas attiré par le rouge anodisé du STM... plus c'est discret, mieux c'est (il existe en noir ou en argent aussi...)

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #148 le: 11 août 2020, 16H 12mn 14s »
j'avais acheté un Oberon D30mm y'a bien longtemps, et j'avais trouvé sympa quand même que ce soit un peu moins dur. Je pense que c'est pareil avec le STM  :thumbsup:

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Re : 996S Eprom et Injection
« Réponse #149 le: 11 août 2020, 21H 41mn 58s »
Je pose une question et Ducati748 me répond illico
On va s'ouvrir un fil de conversation rien que pour nous  :lol:
On discutera d'injection, de roulements de vilo et de squish...
Merci pour le retour, je vais prendre l'option 30mm  :thumbsup: